Hi listener, I’m so glad you clicked play. This episode is going to help you so much in conversations with narcissists and emotionally immature people, and also our teenagers and young adults. Stay tuned till the very end because I give some homework that is life changing. So thank you so much for clicking play. This is Susie Pettit, your certified life relationship coach, your coach for today, let’s just say, and this is episode four hundred and twenty one of the Love Your Life show.

Voiceover: Hi, this is the Love Your Life show with Susie Pettit, certified life and wellness coach. Join Susie as she helps you with your wellness and mindset so you can live a life you love. Let’s go Warriors.

Why hello Warriors. It has been a hot minute since I have done an episode helping you with your relationships with narcissists or emotionally immature people, and I think this is a perfect time of year to do it. If I have some great other episodes that will sort of round out your learning in this, that I will link below in the show notes. And if this is your first time listening to me, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here. I can help you so much. Keep your peace and sanity when you are in these really almost circular, brain numbing debate, slash conversations with the difficult people in your life. And you’ll also want to grab my podcast roadmap, which includes, like, I forget how many, but eight to ten of the foundational episodes that will help you with emotional intelligence. So let’s dive in because emotional immaturity is real and narcissists are at the far end of that scale. And I see a lot of us warm hearted, kind people giving our power away in conversation with these people who are just their intent is to win. And I have three things to share with you today that by the end of the episode, they’re going to help you so much. And I this is not one of those things, but we have to be aware of this, that when someone is emotionally immature, or an emotional vampire or a narcissist. Their their goal in a conversation is to win it and to come out on top. It is not to understand. It is not to grow closer. It is not. It is very ego centered. Thus, the narcissist is only thinking of themselves and they want to come out on top. And so we just need to remember that going in, in that like they want to win. And the only way you then can quote unquote, win or keep your peace is to, is to get out of that conversation as quickly as possible. Really. Okay. So the first thing I want to teach you and just remind you of is that logic does not work with someone like this when they are trying to win an argument at all costs. You explaining and you reasoning just gives them more more bait, frankly, to use against you later. Like in our minds, we’re thinking, if I can just explain this in a way that makes sense. Okay. We start talking and we’re like, blah, blah, blah, you know, etc., because that’s what would happen if you and I were in a conversation, right? Like if we had a misunderstanding, I’d be seeking to understand. I’m like, oh, let me see why. You know, dear listener said it in that way because I’m coming from a kind hearted, open place and I’m trying to keep connection. If I’m coming from a winning place, I don’t freaking care why you said it that way. I just want to hear sort of like I’m listening for all the things you’re saying, like you think I’m listening for your logic. Or if we’re talking to a teenager or a lesson, we’re sort of talking and we’re like, let me tell you the logic behind or the lesson. They’re listening for the loophole. They’re listening for leverage. Okay? A true narcissist is trying to get leverage in the conversation. And the more words you give them, the more explanation, the more defending, the more rambling on, the more, um, bait they get to use against you. Okay. They’re looking for leverage in two ways. They’re looking for leverage to just to with your logic. So they’re like, look for a chink in your logic and they’re looking for leverage in your emotions. When you get emotional, they’ll use that against you. Okay. So this first step here is to really be aware that over explaining or defending, not helpful in this sort of relationship and in this sort of conversation. Second, no over explaining, you’re trying to give them clarity and they’re looking for control. It’s two different things in the conversation. You’re overexplaining to get that clarity. They don’t want clarity. They want a loophole called weaponized control. So they start collecting data of things they can use for leverage against you to reach their main goal, which is to win the conversation. And it’s confusing to be in your shoes. This is where when I’m in these conversations with people, it feels like my brain is like a freaking like a mess of spaghetti. And like word salad is what they call it. Okay. Because I’m just like, this doesn’t make sense. Like someone in my brain would be thinking this and they’re, that’s not how they’re thinking. They are looking to control and to win. And so us overexplaining or trying to give our logic is giving our power away. Which leads me to the third thing that they’re doing is they are in it for the long game because the longer the conversation, it’s like an endurance test. They’re just draining you out of energy. Okay. It is this like, okay, let’s keep her talking. Let’s look for the loopholes. Let’s look for leverage. Let’s look for leverage in her logic. Let’s look for, oh, she’s starting to get emotional. Let’s use, oh, you’re so emotional. You’re so crazy. That sort of stuff. They’re dragging it on. They’re making it longer. Okay. And do you notice that the longer you are talking to people like this, the more agitated and emotional you’ll get and the calmer and more like Voldemort like they get, right? These are the three things that we want to remember in these conversations, so that we can keep our energy, so that we can stay in our warrior like peace and in our place. Okay. They use when they get that leverage. One thing I was thinking about was emotions. And I’ve had this happen to me so many times is that, you know, they use your values against you. So they, they know like someone who is in relationship with me knows that it’s a kindness is a, is a value of mine. Is it a virtue? And so then I’d be talking and I’d be like, well, this isn’t that. But you know, they, they’ve like, got me, they threw out the bait and I like bit and so I’m talking and they’re like, well, that’s really unkind of you or that’s really or I another thing I know is that they know that I don’t like being emotional. I’m freaking emotional. Intelligence coach. I shouldn’t say I don’t like being emotional. I like to be mindful in my actions and like I allow any emotion, but I don’t like to be reactive in those emotions. The person that I’m thinking of would say like, well, you’re getting really emotional now, or you’re getting like they’re using it against you, not in this like kind way that my supportive husband will say, like, oh, sweetheart, I see like your emotions are kind of high right now. How can I support, you know, the, the, the, the emotional vampire and the narcissist is like, oh, I got her. Oh, look at you. You’re emotional. They use it as a weapon, right? They’re sucking the energy out of you as, as the energy in the conversation and your body gets higher, they get calmer. It’s like a game for them. Literally. It’s like, suck it. That’s why I call them emotional vampires, because they’re sucking the blood energy out of you to exhaust you. And they, like, seem to fill up and pump up on this conflict. Healthy adults don’t need to win. It’s a great saying. Who wins? Who loses? Who cares? I think that’s the relationship expert with the Gottman’s. Like if you’re in a healthy relationship, it’s not about winning or losing. You want the relationship to win. So you aren’t trying to get in. Oh, does she understand that I said this or does she understand that I said that? Okay. Now, before I go on, I’m going to take a little side note because you’re like, oh, wait a minute. I think that way sometimes this is the challenge with narcissism. And like a lot of the social media out there where we’re like, narcissists do this or whatever. There is a spectrum, a continuum, a sliding scale of emotional intelligence. Okay. We are all on that scale. I’m an emotional intelligence coach. On some days I’m really high up. Like think of the one end is like eighty. Like I’m really grounded. I’m feeling emotionally mature. I’m like really not reactive. And then other days, and it can happen in a split second, in a day, Something from my past gets triggered, or my hormones and perimenopause go pear shape. Or I didn’t get enough sleep or whatever they are. I’m more down towards a twenty or a ten. Okay. All of this before you start beating yourself up, because this is something non narcissists are very good at. We’re like, oh, maybe I’m the problem. Okay, granted, I’m always here helping you do the self work, but in these situations, no. Okay, maybe we can build up some other emotional intelligence schools. That’s what skills. That’s where the roadmap is from. But I just want some compassion for yourself. That’s a lot of what I do here in coaching is that I just give you acceptance that as a human, we are never always at the eighty emotional intelligence scale. That’s just not fair for you to think an emotional maturity days. We’re going to be sliding up and down that and that’s okay. And we want to support ourselves in that. Narcissists, however, are at zero like a true diagnosed narcissist is at a zero. They have no empathy and emotionally like really emotionally immature people who are making it all about them and always focusing on them are like within the zero to ten range. Okay. And so if you’re listening to this, I know you’re not at that level. I just like chuckle sometimes because they’re like, maybe I’m the narcissist. I’m like, no, sweetheart, the fact you even asked that question is not. So that’s one side note with yourself. When you notice this, you’re like, oh, sometimes I win. I want to win. Like, okay, that’s a great time when you’re in that next debate with your spouse or your kid or your whatever, just notice that. Go back to my episode of last week. The first thing you do in a conversation when you notice you’re triggered is a deep inhale and exhale. And you can just say, I notice that I’m feeling like I want to win. All right, that’s a good noticing that you’re in your emotional child. It’s like, okay. And as soon as you notice that, you gain some power back. So that’s the first thing. The other side note I wanted to just mention is that our teens are in this, our kids will do this sort of stuff. Like they’re they’ll extend the conversation. They get like hyped up when they’re, when we’re debating things with them. Okay. And they are not narcissists. They’re not going to be clinically diagnosed as narcissists yet. They are emotionally immature as they should be because that’s their age. Like, we can look on the TV screen and see national leaders who are acting like twelve year olds or fourteen year olds or eighteen year olds, okay? And they’re actually in their sixties, seventies, and 80s. And yet, if our twelve year old or fourteen year old and our eighteen year old is acting this way, we somehow are like, oh my God, no, that’s emotionally like, that’s regular emotional maturity for that age, which is why we really want to skill up on these things that we’re talking about, like these same skills that can be used with narcissists. Adult narcissists can be used with our emotionally immature teens really skillfully. We don’t over explain, we don’t over defend. We cut it short when we see conversations or just sort of going in this circular pattern. Well, mom, wait a minute. Why do you say my cell phone has to be plugged in downstairs again? Well, did you think about this? Did you think about that? Cut it off. Warriors, they’re going for the endurance test. Another thing that kids are doing is they’re learning communication skills. So if you don’t want to raise a narcissist, then practice these things. I say don’t go deep in conversation. Deep stands for defend, engage, explain, personalize. When we cut it out and we model to our teens that we are not going to just keep debating the same thing back and forth, that we are aware. We’re like, oh, I’m emotionally activated. I need to take a break. We do so much in teaching them the emotional intelligence, which is something I know all parents are like, yeah, I want to teach them that because I don’t freaking know it. So that’s great. Okay, so I just want to like a couple just salves here, little Band-Aids for you. That one. You’re listening to this. You’re not the narcissist. Yes, you are emotionally immature at different times in your day. Totally normal. And our kids are not narcissists. They have the regular immaturity. They’re learning, you know, conversation patterns and back and forth and, and all of that. And, and you can model some of this stuff with our kids. And actually that helps them learn this differentiation when you’re not with a narcissist saying some things like, well, it seems like we have different opinions like this about this, you know, that like modeling that’s healthy. That’s okay. We don’t have to be in a meshed family. We don’t all it’s like, oh, it seems like we have some different opinions about this. You know, right now I’m feeling a little like hot under the collar. So I’m going to take a break. It’s sometimes hard for me to hear how different people are thinking, but that’s on me. I love hearing you have different opinions. I’ll be right back. I’ll be back in five minutes. Or we can say, I don’t feel like this conversation is going anywhere right now. So I’m going to take a break with our kids and relationships we want to foster. I just want to. I just want to highlight for you. We set down the guideline. We’re like, oh, I notice I’m going to take a break. And then we want to follow back. Circle back. I’ll be back in ten minutes. Let’s talk about this later today. Let’s bring this. Do you have time to talk on Saturday? We don’t just leave it hanging out there. Shove it under the rug. Pretend it didn’t happen. We bring it back. That builds their trust in our in us and helps them learn what to expect in a relationship that they matter. So we could say things like, well, it seems like we have different opinions about this, or I don’t feel like this conversation is going anywhere, so I’m going to take a break. Right. We don’t defend. We keep the focus on them. We might say something if it’s our kid, we’ll say like, I hear you think I’m being insane. Or I hear you. I hear you saying I’m ruining your life. Makes sense. You think that way or it makes sense? You’re feeling that right now, I get that I’d be angry at me too. Something I’ve said to my kids. We don’t defend. We don’t engage. We don’t personalize. This is really mature behavior when it is a narcissist. We don’t keep it going. We don’t say, I’ll come back to you in ten minutes because these are not these are not people that we want to, um, dive deeper with emotional intimacy with because they’re not capable. Okay. So we just have our boundaries. Maybe we stay in relationship with people like this. Like I keep a relationship. I have a narcissist in my life that I am fully aware that he’s a narcissist and I am still in relationship with him. Meaning like on my terms, like we don’t talk on the phone, we don’t text. Um, I might listen to an answer, an email from him, but only after, like before I open the email, I’m like, set some expectations for what this email is going to say. Susie. When I’m in person with him, I have some strong boundaries, but I’m never like, let’s bring this up at another time so I can like be lambasted by you again? No, because that’s my self protection and that’s my goal for you, warrior today is to give you some ideas to help with narcissists that they are looking to win. They’re not looking to bring that relationship closer. And so then it’s on your job to do, to not do. I’m like to be aware of these three things. One, don’t over explain, don’t explain your logic, okay? Logic doesn’t work with them. And cut the conversation short. The quicker you can end the conversation, shut it down. Say, this isn’t going anywhere. I’m going to go take a walk or I don’t allow people to yell at me. I’m going outside. Or you keep saying the same thing back and forth. I’m done here. I’m good with where this is. Okay. Firm ends conversations. Reactivity extends it. When you notice that you’re reactive when your emotions are high. Cut the conversation. Get out of that conversation. Okay. Whether it’s a teen or a narcissist, when your emotions are high, your thinking is low. So this week’s homework. My little warriors, my wonderful warriors, my strong warriors. Let’s practice short, short text responses. When you have a paragraph, try to make it one sentence, ten words or less. Okay. If it’s a narcissist we want, I’ll put some of these tools in the show notes. But I think of Biff is something that was taught to me by my divorce attorney. Brief. Informative. Firm. We want periods, not those like dot dot dot. Okay. Neutral words. Got it noted. I’m comfortable with, like I’ve said before, like, okay, I’m going to leave this conversation now. And they’re like, but we did it. But because they’re trying to keep you going and I’m like, I’m comfortable with where we’re at. That’s a really good one. So this were this week practice, short practice cutting these conversations off practice. If it’s someone that you love, practice noticing when you’re engaged or when they’re engaged or activated or emotional cutting it off. You can always come back. Our emotional brain is impulsive and it thinks things need to be said right now. It doesn’t. Sweetheart, you’ve got time. All right. Thank you so much for listening. I hope this was helpful. Let me know if this is helpful. In September in the Love Your Life school, which there’s still a couple days to join. We are working on emotional regulation, which is the master skill that makes everything easier and better. And especially with this because when like if you just, if when you’re listening to this, you’re like, oh my gosh, I don’t know if I could say that like, I’m done with the conversation or I’m comfortable where I am and you feel like your chest getting tighter. That’s all our emotional intelligence and your work is learning how to manage your Were emotions so that you can stay in your adult chair, so that you can stay whatever age you are, that you can stay in that level of emotional maturity. And I got to tell you, it’s the biggest freedom in the world for me. When I am feeling like I acted and showed up like the adult that I am. I have so much more confidence in all areas of my life, and I am helping all students in the Love Your Life school with this next month and I would love to have you join us. All right Warriors, let’s go. Thank you so much for listening in.

Voiceover: Thank you for listening to the Love Your Life show. If you want to hear more from Susie and support the show, be sure to subscribe to this podcast on iTunes. Also, leave a review and share this podcast with friends and family. You’ll get a Warriors.

Hey. Thank you. I want to thank you. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you for following this podcast on your favorite feed. Thank you for leaving a rating and review. Thank you for Sharing this podcast with your friends, clicking the link and sharing it with someone that could benefit also. It is because of you that I am able to impact and help so many warriors. So I don’t want to miss that. I’m not sure I’ve said that recently, but I am grateful for you. I love you, you’re awesome. And if you’re looking to give back in any way, the best thing right now would be to leave the review on Apple or Spotify. Second best thing is to leave a review on Google. I just Google Susie Pettit, life coach, and there’s a place there where you can leave a rating. Thank you for you. I wish I could rate and review you. In fact, if you have a small business or like email me, I will rate and review you. People know that I love supporting women and small businesses. Okay, love you dear warriors. Thanks for being a part of the Love Your Life show family.